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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 23 post(s)
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 87	Posted - 2012.05.11 04:00:00 - [1] - Quote Bonuses has to be more directly tied to the war effort .. Requires one or two hours (or a DT) for invested LP to clear the red tape and take effect but it is in the pool as it were from the moment the button is pressed. 1. Station lockout. First order of business after taking control militarily is to prevent enemy access to local resources. 2-3. Repair and Clone costs. Still in the process of pacifying the area so troops needs proper support. 4-5. Manufacture/Harvesting/Research bonus of some sort. System deemed "safe" and local business needs incentives to come back in. That way a system holder who has upgraded his system gets a longish grace period in which he holds the upper hand (enemy can't dock) and removes the already discussed "ignore until last hour and blob the crap out of system" defence because well enemy will have reships available locally at that point .. It is the incentive to actually burn ones LP on system that CCP so carelessly forgot and a solution to the horrible idea of the arbitrary lockout that no one outside CCPs offices likes. - No buffer .. when hostilities break out the effects are felt immediately in the civilian population .. feel free to read any history book you'd like if you don't believe me. Make the 4-5 bonus good enough to want to aggressively protect it and all is well. - No cyno-jammer .. capitals have always been a part of LS, supers have not. Change the way supers/cyno's behave when in LS rather than arbitrarily shutting everything out. * Spool-up on all cynos. * Numerical limit to what can come through to a LS cyno (ex. 10 Capitals or 5 Supers) with cyno-gens prohibited on capitals. * Removal of immunities when in LS. * Prohibition of bridges into LS Those three combined would allow LS to take care of business against the knee-jerk drops .. meticulously planned drops would still be devastating but I am pretty OK with that .. planning/organization > all. Julius Foederatus wrote: I can't like zarnak's idea enough. Lets add actual consequences to the game, so you can't just shoot at faction NPCs or militia members all day and still dock in their systems like nothing happened. Makes sense for the militia stations, but for all the 'neutral' (read: NPC) corps who have stations in area not so much .. business is business. Were it to be implemented then station locations should be looked at to create "pockets" where hostile entities could never dock and thus act as kill zones to use against them.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 89	Posted - 2012.05.12 12:34:00 - [2] - Quote Grey Azorria wrote: So low sec industry having an advantage over high sec industry is a bad thing? ... No, but adding slots to stations that are rarely if ever "full" is pretty bad as it changes absolutely nothing .. it is the proverbial drop in the ocean. If the goal is to 'boost' the FW areas by attracting industrialists and marketeers, then almost all actions one can do in that field needs to be tax/fee-free and actual bonuses applied to manufacturing, invention and the like. Remember that if it is 'float' it needs to be able to compete with the 4 hubs and high-sec in general which the current level of benefit is nowhere near enough to.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 115	Posted - 2012.05.18 20:56:00 - [3] - Quote How would fighting cruisers with frigs/dessies improve combat? If anything you end up taking blobbing beyond mandatory when hitting those systems Suggested elsewhere that defensive plexing should be done with considerable time benefit (ie. 3-5 times faster) than offensive ditto. Would make attacking space a much more involved and focused endeavour instead of the "run everything in constellation" approach we are seeing now .. combined with diminishing returns (and its inverse) you'd reach an equilibrium based on available manpower with pushes (which we love) bringing loads of pain, suffering, blood and tears (which we also love). * Note: Faster defensive + inverse warzone control modifier would ideally cancel each other out. Favouring snowballing is all fine and dandy, but we need some mechanic that allows the downtrodden to make a come back or it will degrade to pure meta-gaming and farming.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 126	Posted - 2012.05.22 16:59:00 - [4] - Quote Cearain wrote: ..We were looking for ways to balance things and help the side that is losing. Your proposal makes the system even more unbalanced against the losing side. Yes, if and only if, tactics remain the same. An offensive campaign is now hit a system and hit everything within 1-2 jumps while waiting for spawns in target all the while a semi-heavy blob lingers in target system to be called to any counter. Try doing that when defender can reship to appropriate ships for each and every plex. Attacking sovereign soil is not a 'job' for weekend warriors .. sure they can make it so like they did in null, but look how that turned out. Either make offensives "major" things or make the pew flow fast and freely .. neither holds true and never has (least not mechanics wise) ..
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 132	Posted - 2012.05.24 03:19:00 - [5] - Quote Cearain wrote: ..For example, the minmatar are winning now because they hold more systems than the amarr. If we make it easier of them to defend those systems we are making it easier for them not for the amarr. You staring yourself blind on that one line and missing the picture entirely. Will try to make it clearer: - Diminishing returns: Time to cap plex increases as warzone control does, can use modifier, never faster than now. - Inverse Diminishing returns: Time to cap plex decreases as warzone control does (maybe even by more than modifier). Coming back from eating dust needs to be a lot easier, call it the FW version of "Fight or Flight" adrenaline kick. - Defensive plexing bump: Time to cap defensive plex reduced by 50-75%. Not getting paid and is essentially just a matter of slamming a door. Note: I am in no way attached to this bit, it stems from the weeks/months I spent orbiting alone to defend Sisiede/Lantorn and the deep'ish systems together with Damar after he tried making his standings point by abusing the snot out of it (CCP still hasn't gotten the point though ). So if warzone control is maxed out, the snowball may enjoy a total of x16 LP in store compared to opponent, but the enemy will be able to cap plexes in a measly 25% of the time whereas they need 4x the time (at max warzone control even a defensive bump won't help a snowball). After a brief period of people orbiting timers and raging on forums about said timers the two warzones will reach a balance based on available manpower/time, in the case of Amarr/Mimes considering the large surplus of bodies the Mimes have, the Warzone Control numbers would probably end up at x0 for Amarr and x2 for Mimes. What I am trying to accomplish with this is to avoid any side from doing a massive landgrab and then going full carebear with little need for defense other than making sure DT plexes are secured and contested states don't go too high. The whole ability of "owning" more than one can use/inhabit trend is what has broken null and I am loathe to let it happen in FW (too late I know, because :lolCCP:).
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 153	Posted - 2012.05.24 04:59:00 - [6] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: ... A system's upgrades should be exciting enough to defend. Plain and simple. Whatever do you mean? Are you saying that cheaper clones and more indy slots are not good enough?!?!?!?! .. . Hahahahahahahaha. Upgrade bonuses are pretty much like having an knitting machine as competition prize at an arm wrestling contest .. junk.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 171	Posted - 2012.06.04 17:10:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: ... So the beast CCP is not hearing impaired after all .. what a relief! CCP Ytterbium wrote: Think again on how to upgrade systems that have no stations There is a major overhaul of POS in the pipe-line, one that will allow all sorts of fancy stuff for players to do with them, no? Answer: POS in upgraded system have their fuel supplied by militia (ie. 100% reduction in fuel consumption) and depending on actual POS changes perhaps some bonus grid/cpu to install a critical module. Zarnak Wulf wrote: I'd prefer a system upgrade to lock out those with poor standing towards the militia. WT lockout should be automatic. The beauty of tying it to upgrade level is that it "forces the issue" with regards to keeping the LP sink constantly churning as well as it puts a lot more pressure on defenders to prevent too many plexes from being lost, lest the enemy establish a beachhead with reships on-site .. Has a much greater chance of curtailing the snowballs than anything else on the table as it will in the end come down to total available manpower rather than merely one TZ to rule them all with a skeleton crew running interference the other 16 hours of the day.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 176	Posted - 2012.06.06 12:42:00 - [8] - Quote Julius Foederatus wrote: +1 for this Idea. I don't think anyone but the tiny, vocal minority still is against station lockouts. Having that absolute penalty does give much more impetus to the willingness to plex, and that is what has been driving the fights lately. The problem with upgrades is that, at least on the Gallente front, upgrades are too easily stripped away. It's become a meaningless isk sink that can be undone with a few t1 frigs and some time. The reason why plexing has gone through the roof is that people are being paid like robber barons for their time now .. has very little to do with docking. Not sure if putting it at level 3 is "good", perhaps 2 or even 1 is better .. have to run the numbers .. should be hard enough for an assault to take an effort before opening up stations and give defence a reasonable time to respond. Reason why I support lock-outs as part of the upgrade path is that it will effectively remove the ability of a single faction from dominating through alts .. if enemy is allowed to plex in a system you had damn well better be there to kick his ass or he will breed like Brutor. With regards to upgrades being a massive sink .. we have been discussing this elsewhere and the idea of awarding a partial "repair amount" from defensive plexes is gaining traction .. as is the idea of some kind of reward for defensive work in general. Example: Enemy takes a medium thus knocking off 8750LP (50% of 17.5k) of the upgrade pool. He is discovered and killed/bought/run off and defensive crews take the minor and major , repairing half of what the same sites would have caused in damage (25% of 10k+25k = 8750LP) and in the process get the same amount (25%) of the LP value of the sites (provided system is contested). System should be fashioned in such a way that defensive work feels like a necessity (worthwhile upgrades, keeping enemy from docking) while not feeling like work .. since the timer system makes it feel like work, some kind of compensation is in order .. doesn't have to huge as defence is a newcomer/alt occupation except when enemy is insistent The thread in Warfare-Tactics on the topic of plexes and NPCs is gravitating towards the idea of plex timers automatically resetting over time when no enemy is present. Benefit of such a system is that defenders get to focus on killing/evicting the attackers who in turn will never have to experience the glory of the speed-bumped plex (timer run to a few seconds) .. this idea alone has the potential to create enormous amounts of pew as one can't just plex a bit everywhere and pick up the next day in whichever system wasn't decontested .. also makes the multi-pronged attacks a lot more valuable and risky. Note: With such a system there will/should be no rewards for defensive work of any sort .. to control space, you have to patrol space or invest in tissues.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 180	Posted - 2012.06.08 04:33:00 - [9] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Thanks, Veshta, for the good post! I am not completely irrational you know, just disillusioned Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: My fear is that it will increase the pew pew during an actual system takeover (must be done in one big risky push like you pointed out) but not do anything to encourage small gangs or solo pilots from reaping the benefits of their casual roaming and plexing, other than the LP payout itself. Easily sorted with what was suggested earlier: Diminishing returns. The more downtrodden a side is, the less VP it needs to flip a system just as the dominatrix would need more to increase her holdings. Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: There is an intriguing idea being proposed in F & I... Aah, good old Susan Black .. she spams ideas almost as much as I do Will read/respond a little later, but sounds like it might work with some tweaking. Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Something for everyone to stop by and consider at least, should make for a good discussion assuming everyone keeps things civil and constructive. F&I threads are generally very constructive, it is the Warfare&Tactics (aka. COAD of FW) that is a cesspool
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 189	Posted - 2012.06.14 14:57:00 - [10] - Quote Deen Wispa wrote: When a system goes vulnerable, it should no longer spawn plexes for people to continue farming. There is a Gallente system that has been vulnerable for a week and WTs continue to farm it into perpetuity because of the spawns. No one cares to defensive plex it because it's a stationless system that leads into a nullsec entrance. Conversely, I can understand why the enemy doesn't want to capture it either. But if this is the case, then plexes shouldn't continue to spawn. Gotta hand it to the Caldari, that is a bloody genius way of gaming the system .. hahahahahahahaha.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 206	Posted - 2012.06.25 04:25:00 - [11] - Quote @Zarnak: 1. Mind if I do a more advanced version of that? Sec. gain made exclusive to low-sec. One of the FW system upgrades is to increase said gain by increasing rat bounty .. would make FW turf the best place to rat sec. back up and militia's do so enjoy having more to shoot. NB: Increasing bounty and not the rat itself allows 'ratters' to stay small and use PvP fits/ships thus increasing the likelihood of a "Good TimeGäó". 2. Would only make sense if rat destruction becomes a requirement. Since plex capture is time(r) based, it makes better sense to have each level of upgrade (5 at present I believe) add one minute to all timers for attackers and remove one minute for defenders. - Attacking an upgraded system will take longer until upgrades are whittled down while defending said systems would be easier provided one starts doing so ASAP. NB: Would need some sort of delay before 'fresh' LP are applied to upgrade status or a defender could keep system uncontested by spamming BCs in major (at medium speed (-5 minutes) and adding LP immediately. 3. Similar perhaps, but you hopefully don't want the same magnitude .. would make attacking upgraded systems a royal pain and make every attack require an even bigger blob (no reships). Keep in mind that upgrades are bought with LP which are abundant to say the least, which I suspect is why CCP opted for such weak upgrade bonuses to begin with.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 268	Posted - 2012.08.24 12:22:00 - [12] - Quote Cearain wrote: ...Hans if you make it a pvp mechanic all the people who are cashing out will be dedicated faction war pilots for that campaing. There won't be any farmers screwing up the market. People who earn lp in plexes will all be pvpers who helped actually fight the war. The only exception to this will be the mission runners. And I think level 4 missions could stand a bit of a nerf... When (no longer consider it an "if") spawn destruction becomes a requirement for plexes, thus killing off a majority of the plex farmers, the obvious next step is to revamp missions. By expanding the list of ships/structures needed to be killed for completion and introducing what has become known as "poison pills", you have effectively removed a majority of mission farmers as well (without CCP having to give up their delusion of wanting to give us choice .. in a bloody WAR!) and can allow missions to count towards occupancy. Double bonus if they address the glaring oversight that allows missions to spawn in already held space as fighting traditionally increases as a given side is 'cornered' and with both plexes and missions being spammed in the last remaining systems .. should be a honest to God bloodbath PS: Whoopsie, off-(official)topic again .. hehehehehe
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 268	Posted - 2012.08.25 12:26:00 - [13] - Quote corestwo wrote: ... Some mumbo+jumbo about prices ... You state that RF Firetails sell for 12M as if it is some kind of high price .. check the store with your FW alt .. 12M 'was' rock-bottom or "at cost" so to speak prior to the ridiculous x4 modifier was put in. Base is 10k LP and 2M ISK and the market is capable of moving insane volumes at 12M a pop, especially now that AFs have gone again after their boost, so it is a natural low. As for Slicers, when we left militia service the price had been bottomed out for over a year (thank you mission whores!) and they were wholesaling for 12M .. if you want to know how/why they got to 35+M then look no further than the Shakorite bum-rush in the last weeks before patch and the logically following scarcity of product as Amarr militia members suddenly had to pay 40k LP due to the ridiculous x4 modifier if they wanted a Slicer. "But that does not make sense because 35M is a ***-poor LP exchange rate if they are 40k LP!!!" I can hear you think .. well my dear, the system was so wonderfully thought out (coughcough) that rock-bottom for Empire mission whores selling faction frigates is lower (30k LP+10M ISK vs. 40k LP+8M ISK) than the corresponding militia when they are steamrolled .. I can almost guarantee that the majority of those 35M Slicers came from Empire and not FW. PS: Did I mention I think the x4 modifier is ridiculous? And just so not this entire blurp is off-topic: Make individual system upgrades (iHub) matter primarily for the grunt fighting and dying in the trenches. - I for one could care less about extra factory slots and would rather have cheaper repairs, purchases (ie. kill the taxman!) and less tedium in general. Introduce a constellation wide bonus, dependent on "stability" (ie. aggregate upgrade level) of included systems that caters to the care-bears such as factory slots. - Just makes sense that a battlefield does not encourage civilian presence until such time that resistance has been taken care of. Utterly and completely *annihilate* (Goddess, I love that word!) the WarZoneControl crappola or use it for some "soft" purpose that does not make everyone want to take up industrial scale farming with no time for pew. Previously suggested it be used as a sort of stability modifier, one gets shakier as size increases (ref: every damn Empire in history), in FW terms that could be done by decreasing the time it takes for the enemy to cap an offensive plex on a sliding scale. - Will, or rather should, let the fronts reach an equilibrium based on combat pilots rather than farming frigates (assuming plexes are sorted, ie. Kill Everything!).
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 274	Posted - 2012.08.31 05:23:00 - [14] - Quote System upgrade status is easy as hell to maintain, all one need do is kill hostile plexers and defensive plex .. problem is that the upgrades are largely worthless and only the 'spike' in WZC has any real value, which is why a level 5 never lasts long, because why spend time/ISK for zero value? That is what this thread is all about, to cook ideas that will make people want to bleed the enemy and themselves to maintain upgraded systems. @Hans: See, I do know how to read the thread titles .. just can't be bothered most of the time
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 274	Posted - 2012.08.31 14:18:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Many thanks for reading this huuuuuge wall of text, constructive comments are welcome I'll read your wall and build you one of my own. By the way, constructive comments have not existed with regards to FW for years, too many emotions invested for anything to be any more than subjective and subjective does not mix well with constructive CCP Ytterbium wrote: Q: WHY NOT HAVING SEPARATE DONATION BRANCHES WITH DIFFERENT EFFECTS IN THE I-HUB? Seems dead easy to me, reduce amount in both branches equally, in essence doubling the "effectiveness" of plexing in a "super system". One must assume that the double path is only utilized in protected systems so if anything it would increase the pew. CCP Ytterbium wrote: Q: HOW ABOUT HAVING PIRATE NPCS IN BELTS PROVIDE BETTER SECURITY STATUS INCREASES FROM SYSTEM UPGRADES? You got that backwards me'thinks. There is currently minimal risk or downside involved with breaking the law, null is generally safer than low-sec (or even some high-sec areas!) and the person working on his sec. status gets ISK thrown in his face on top of it all (bounties). If you keep status quo, at least remove bounties as long as the pilot has negative sec. status .. makes double sense as law enforcement probably does not really hire that many criminals to assist them. There was a suggestion made some time ago to move all sec. gain to low-sec, no if's or but's. Makes a lot more sense to require criminals to 'help' the society they have inflicted harm upon rather than having them run around doing the thing that got them in trouble (shooting stuff) in places beyond the reach of the law (null-sec). Adding a sec. gain modifier to system upgrades would make FW turf the best place to be for sec. repair, but militia's are generally quite trigger happy so it would also be the most dangerous .. just sayin' WAR ZONE CONTROL EFFECTS: Good move, not sure if its enough though, might have to tweak requirements for the tiers as well. In case you were unaware, the geography on the Shakorite/Amarr front is such that almost the entire Shakorite hinter-land is inaccessible for anything but a full-scale concerted attack .. too many bottlenecks and staggering distances involved. I bet (read: haven't run the numbers) the Shakorites can keep the hinter-land perpetually upgraded with none on the front and enjoy near max. LP benefit with minimal risk and/or cost. NEW SYSTEM COSTS: So you are doubling it them, yes? Now the process of taking one system yields LP (roughly 3M) enough to fully upgrade ten system instead of twenty .. I sincerely hope that maintenance percentage kicks into over-drive fast'ish if it is to have any effect whatsoever .. as in going from tier 4-5 requires millions in LP per system, minimum as much as has been made taking the system in the first place. NEW SYSTEM UPGRADES: You holding out on us or did the thread go on too long for the earlier ideas to stay in memory? Where is the single best idea of all, the one that added docking denial to the upgrade path and thus rewarded concerted/organized attacks? At least you have repair/tax reductions in there now which is good, but still need some tinkering if it is to be applicable to a bloody (read: knee-deep in blood, not the swear word) WARZONE!!!11 CYNO JAMMER: Still not getting what issue a jammer is supposed to solve that is not more easily and appropriately solved by looking at supers as they relate to sovereign empire space .. vanilla caps have never been an issue, hell most militias drop them on a whim but supers are generally a null thing and should be 'encouraged' to stay out of the empire's way. So why? What are you trying to solve? How many additional militia capital 'GFs' do you honestly expect will be the result of the man-hours spent adding this useless feature? REDUCE I-HUB LP BLEED and DEFENSIVE PLEXING GIVES LP: Somehow knew this was coming, Farmers Union has been allowed to grow too strong Let me tell you how it will go down; Attackers will be allowed free reign for the 7-8 hours it takes to whittle down the buffer after which defender sends in a blob, clears system and gets maximum defensive LP allowed without taking a tier hit .. will be done by gun-less alts obviously because anything else is madness .. that is for core systems where repair/market discounts are of value. Most other systems (read: not needed to maintain WZC tier) will be allowed to be put into vulnerable as now before defensive efforts are even considered to maximize the LP income. End result: You have managed to reinforce the farming rather than neuter it as you should want .. it is about pew after all, no? Better: Increase bleed again, you doubled buffer so set too low and have the defensive LP be applied to iHub directly (ie. pilot never sees it) without maintenance fee .. - Will increase the pressure to defend when holding enough space for the maintenance to hurt. LP FROM VULNERABLE SYSTEMS: Why even include this, Capt. Obvious? Personally would have classified it as a bug and squashed it with nary a mention .. tear generation would be tremendous. What I am still missing (way more I'd like but running out of 'remaining characters'): - Where is the mechanism that allows the underdog (ie. outmanned/-financed) to have fun/make headway without having to resort to excessive blobbing or other fun killing tricks (especially since you want to keep the game-breakingly bad for non-blobs no docking rule)? - Where is the incentive to aggressively pursue attackers if/when a certain tier has been secured (see above reg. Shakorite geography)? - You claim you can't make LP store dynamic due to it being a dusty old thing, then why not yank a bunch of the faction items from the various Empire stores to give FW monopoly on more than just some cores and a few hulls?
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 274	Posted - 2012.08.31 14:34:00 - [16] - Quote Sorry in advance, going off topic for a spell. CCP Fozzie wrote: That tag change is something we've heard from others as well, I definitely think is has merit but we can't commit to tag changes at this time. Want it taken to the extreme? - Tags replaced by increased ISK cost or some exotic material/item in store. - Offensive plexes do not give LP but tags dropped from defending NPCs can be exchanged for LP at a militia station, total value about the same as current. - Defensive plexes spawn a container with tags where timer was upon completion. Tags can be redeemed at a station or delivered directly to iHub thus bypassing the bureaucracy and minimizing possible maintenance fees (NB: iHub is slow to process tags so expect to be stationary while is completes the transaction ) Nuke farmers and steal their stuff! Nuke defender on iHub trying to save a dime and steal their stuff! Hell, Nuke everyone everywhere .. they probably got STUFF!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 275	Posted - 2012.08.31 16:43:00 - [17] - Quote Horak Thor wrote: First of thanks for the massive wall o text was a good read and im pretty excited :) One thing ive been dieing to be implemented is the borders idea. where only neighbouring systems to your own held space can be taken, from an RP perspective or just a realism perspective it doesnt seem right that we can jump multiple jumps behind enemy lines and capture systems avoiding all its frontal systems. At the moment this wouldnt be able to be implemented because i think we have to much of an advantage over the Amarr, however in the future it would be an interesting addition. A slow frontal grind is much more interesting than all your systems being contested instantaniously. Anyway thanks :) Pretty much the content of my Great Vision from way back when everyone were still excited about the whole thing (Ultimo 2009). Have to allow for action beyond the front or extend it to adjacent+1 though or it becomes a massive blob-fest .. just imagine trying to get past Dal if front was to be just one deep shudder
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 275	Posted - 2012.08.31 18:04:00 - [18] - Quote corestwo wrote: Sooner rather than later, please. But make sure it's done right. I'm, uh, not sure nullsec players will put up with a botched revamp. WHAT!?! I thought you lot LOVED the awesomeness of Dominion It was always the schedule to put FW to bed and then go full tilt on nulls arses as far as I know. 'Tis a big job and they'll probably need all hands on deck to pull it off in a timely manner.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 276	Posted - 2012.09.02 16:16:00 - [19] - Quote If Black's numbers hold and assumptions are not completely wrong, then: - Defensive LP is a major No-go. The idea that a steamroller can make more defending than the underdog can attacking is just wrong, especially since CCP wants everyone to be on the offensive constantly (stated design goal). Replace with timer automatically returning to zero/level when hostile is evicted and maybe apply a portion of the LP directly to iHub when defender invests the time to cap it .. benefit from defending should be that one wants to for 'wider' bonuses and not for an direct ISK/LP infusion )is pretty much risk free after all). - Make it impossible to 'invest' LP in a system that has lost a plex to enemy forces in the last 12-24 hours. Should help counter the difficulty the anaemic/underdog has making headway. - Double or triple bleed percentage. Between doubling buffer and cutting 80% off bleed, making so much of a dent in a LP/pilot/alt flush militias WZC is a practical impossibility. Should help counter the difficulty the anaemic/underdog has making headway. - Missions to hostile systems and hostile systems only. I am guessing this has not been implemented due to the whole sovereignty entry being cosmetic in nature (ie. server still considers a captured system as being of opposing Empire). - Cut LP earned "abroad" to 10-25%. Just enough to act as incentive to help one another but not enough to warrant having a permanent presence .. bring our ~~troops~~ alts home! - There is entirely too much ISK/LP involved in FW presently (FarmWarsGäó), one does not and should not go to war to make wads of cash while fighting. Enough to make ends meet for the regular Joe, if noticeable profit is to be had it should be from killing/dying. Reduce LP awards across the board, make exploding hostile militia ships drop a majority of its content (read: Boost the loot fairy) and spawn trade-able, destructible tags in PvP wrecks that can be exchanged for LP at militia station (in addition to LP-for-Kills award). Idea should be to not only make it harder and harder (read: expensive in ISK/hours) to maintain the higher tiers, but also make the income available for a steamroller involve increasing risk plus of course to make it more about pew than orbiting buttons.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 276	Posted - 2012.09.03 12:35:00 - [20] - Quote Dark-Angel wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: UPDATED THREAD 31/08/2012 HERE. Move station deny docking from being automatic when a system is captured to something that only happens when the enemy upgrade a system to level X! Dont bring back station games. You finally found a way that forces players to move about and play the game. Lets keep it that way. More fights, more fun. What makes you think that it will increase that lovely aspect of Eve? Between doubled buffer and severely nerfed LP bleed, you are looking at a day or more (dependent on which level it is placed) of concentrated plexing before enemy is "allowed in", one should think that if enemy is allowed free reign to that extent then 'docking games' is the least of your worries It will act as a counter to the gaming-of-system that is already taking shape in W&T where all systems not directly needed for WZC tier are kept at very high contested status (read: low to no upgrades) to maximize defensive LP .. want to bet that concept will collapse if it means enemy can dock? Shorter: By making docking denial part of the upgrade path you emphasize the need to defend before it starts paying through the nose .. ie. players will have to make a very real choice: easy but little LP or tons of LP that has to be bled for. "Cross LP" are a heinous flaw if you ask me, perpetuates the 2 steamrollers/2 underdogs status quo to no end which is just bad for FW. Cut foreign made LP by 3/4 or more .. just enough to say that help is appreciated but no more. We had frequent collaborations before LP were even in the mix, but back then it was Pew assistance and not alt plexing swarms .. we need to encourage pew, not give options for risk averse to simple clone to other theatre when offensive LP dries up. PS: With the inevitably broken defensive plexing LP coming the issue might sort itself out, but it is treating the common cold with a GMO anthrax for all the good it will do to kill the evil farmer that has kept LP market depressed for years.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 276	Posted - 2012.09.04 10:55:00 - [21] - Quote Lev Arturis wrote: How does a 130mil cyno jammer that has a duration of 1 hour has any effect on 0.0 logistics? YOU FOOL! That one question just crashed the entire tinfoil futures market .. aaaargh, my pension fund!!! The proposed jammer will have no measurable effect even within FW. The amount of capital slug-fests is minimal and always has been due to plexes catering to everything but. Would much prefer dev time being put towards an upgrade that reinforces/encourages the smaller fights .. such as plex spawn control: pay to 'swap' one size for another.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 277	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:06:00 - [22] - Quote Once more for the hell of it: Defensive LP is an atrocious idea that will inevitably exasperate the farming issues as the one Aspect of FW that is even easier than the current speed-tanking frigate is defensive plexing. While it might help if the rules are bent (read: contorted) by having enemy NPC suddenly appear in friendly plexes, it raises the question of whether a mechanic that requires that amount of trickery to even be palpable should be considered at all. Suggested changes (ihub+plexes) almost "fixes" the offensive part of the equation; decent enough potential payout, semi-relevant upgrade options (still want docking somewhere in the there ), challenging underlying mechanics .. all in all, looking pretty good. Defensive fix however is the basest of the base and amounts to throwing ISK/LP at the problem and even delaying any required action for exorbitant amount of time (almost as if designed to allow one TZ really), hasn't worked in any other circumstance that I can recall be it virtual or real. Defending ones space should be reward in and of itself, make the upgrades worth protecting rather than handing out LP willy-nilly. This is two-fold: -+- Immediate benefits acquired by expensing the LP, well over hal-way there with much better effects in the upgrade paths but still need MOAR! * Increase slots, speed, efficiency etc. even more .. within reason of course, but barring using Titan's to export the ability to mass produce effectively in low-sec makes little sense, which bring me to .. * Make repair and taxes cost 0 (zero) ISK .. What is the worst that can happen, pirates move in, a low-sec trade-hub comes into being or freighters start selling/moving again? -+- Introduce a sense of urgency to defending and wanting to die/kill for ones space. This isn't and shouldn't be like null where you have hours/days to get your act together. * Either decrease the upgrade levels again (bad idea, need to dump LP from system somehow) or increase the bleed significantly compared to proposed levels. * Double, triple, quadruple or however high one can go without breakage, LP-for-Kills within defensive plexes. Do NOT payout this LP but rather use it to top up the system LP pool, any overflow is lost or perhaps paid out as normal. * Add the ability for the enemy to dock should he have ~8 hours uninterrupted plexing, ought to be around level 3-4 upgrade or so as originally suggested by CCP. Damn, now my beer is gone .. grrrrrrrrr. Edit: Forgot the underdog fail-safe. Can be anything that facilitates a come back without needing a massive influx of players (ie. Da Blob) .. personally partial to reducing all involved timers the deeper one is in the hole. Down to 1-3 systems and you can take any plex, defensive and offensive, in say half the time
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 278	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:33:00 - [23] - Quote Problem is incentives, ones you add them you get ~~ants~~ farmers. The obvious solution is to remove the artificial separation twixt LP/ISK, PvP and PvE as much as possible. Some examples: - LP value on tags, remove offensive LP. Rats are already slated to be killed to cap anything so is a no brainer. Adds some risk to as one can get popped before getting paid. - Missions only to hostile systems, mission VP count towards system contested status and all missions get a poison pill. Everyone gets to actually fight the war without forcing anyone to pew .. encourage, but not force . - Add modifier to LP-for-kills inside plexes and apply to system VP as well as pay it out. Just imagine a pitched battle where defender loses a plex but comes out ahead VP wise due to killing more of the enemy trying to get him out of that same plex.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 278	Posted - 2012.09.05 08:48:00 - [24] - Quote Deerin wrote: ...My proposal is : Reverse Tier LP reward bonuses for recapturing currently occupied systems... Oh dear, a good bordering on brilliant idea from the other side of the fence .. what is the world coming to!!!!1111 Deerin wrote: DO NOT REWARD LP'S FOR PLEXING IMMEDIATELY!!!11! KEEP TRACK OF THEM AND REWARD THEM WHEN THE SYSTEM IS CAPTURED/DECONTESTED. Welcome to the Common Sense Lobby, may your words carry weight and your arguments crush the opposition!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 279	Posted - 2012.09.05 19:31:00 - [25] - Quote Cearain wrote: ...But there will always be 2 winning sides... Isn't that the whole point of this exercise, to come up with a system where that is no longer true? Problem so far has been the complete lack of a mechanic that would allow an underdog to fight the odds without quadrupling in size over night .. suggestions to include diminishing returns for a steamer and their reverse for the dogs came out immediately after the FF presentation so has been poked and prodded to death with no one having been able to point out a significant downside to such a thing. Once you surrender to the premise that there will always be only 2 militias then FW is lost for good. Won't matter how much you tweak PvE, PvP, Incentives and what not if half the people involved will either be having a crappy experience or be forced to resort to gaming the system.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 279	Posted - 2012.09.05 21:15:00 - [26] - Quote And without the horribly broken bits, where is your illusory "underdog can prevail" then? The obvious error (why wasn't this caught in testing is beyond me) that allows infinitely vulnerable systems. Low-skilled alts doing vast majority of orbiting. Etc. What tweaks could possibly 'fix' something as fundamentally flawed as the current FarmFest? Yes. Underdogs can 'function' within the current system provided they can gather enough firepower (read: dreads) for the couple of hours it takes to jump around nuking the 50+ bunkers. But is that really what you want? 99% of the time spent dual-boxing an alt to get a thirty minute window in which to cash out knowing full well that the enemy might not be getting full value, but is getting a slightly lower value almost non-stop regardless of your actions? You may not be my enemy, but you sure sound like you are the enemy of fun* * Fun meaning all parties involved enjoying themselves by challenging each other in a constant gay-as-can-be frolicking game of "Shoot the other guy in the face!"
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 280	Posted - 2012.09.08 05:48:00 - [27] - Quote Mackenzie Ayres wrote: Why not add the reduction of time to the science slots too? Also if you really want to make a leap, you can start reducing the material multiplier , Even a 10 - 15% reduction in manufacturing material requirements would surely make lowsec an attractive place to live. Mac Better science slots would all be gobbled up by alts popping their heads in once in a blue moon to refresh runs .. as it is now really. If you want semi-permanent population increase you need to make the lives of would be settlers as comfortable and rewarding as possible, which in turn means establishing hubs and increasing entertainment options. Manipulating ME on the assembly line (AL) level has the potential to do just that, although you might need to create a new AL that is only capable of doing low tech assembly or you'd see the same scenario as with science slots only with JF's/Bridged moving T2 stuff around. - Double the tax reduction (free at level 5). - Double the repair discount (free at level 5). - Add T1 specific assembly lines with 5% material reduction per upgrade level. - Increase (or improve) exploration site/belt spawns within warzones dependent on upgrade level. Similar to null upgrades really. - Increase bleed once again, instead of 10% (double buffer & 20% bleed) of current levels a better target would be 50% (ie. doubling buffer only). People should be ~~forced~~ encouraged to actively and aggressively defend upgraded systems, especially if they are going to get their own LP faucet. Ideally the battlefield should be "fluid" with a handful of almost static systems, the home fortressesbases. Keep in mind that offensive plexing is going to be hit hard as hell so the majority of plexing will need to be done in small gangs for maximum effect (instead of alt swarms) so VP tally across the board will likely be reduced to a trickle compared to the biblical flood of the past few months.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 280	Posted - 2012.09.09 07:11:00 - [28] - Quote Herping yourDerp wrote: nerfing highsec stations would be a bad thing. the 1 and only thing killing lowsec are overzealous pirates that kill anything that moves. let the rifter go wanabee pirate, save yourself for the freighter. Garviel Tarrant wrote: There are very few things in low sec that favor outlaws Yeah, we are in dire need of a low-sec revamp, would be awesome if the pirate themed concept that encourages mafia like operations was to be introduced so the sociopathic mass murderers of present day low-sec got itches/tickles in extremities other than their trigger finger. Garviel Tarrant wrote: And the hard mode part is due to sentries. Camping gates are not really piracy and the decision to (and hence blame for) engage anything on a gate lies entirely on the shoulders of the person doing so .. just sayin' But kind of off-topic; So might I suggest cooking up a scheme for low-sec, posting it and let it flesh out 'naturally' .. or you could dig up one of the existing threads and add to it. I'll be happy to help keep it on page one as low-sec needs that sweet love almost as much as FW/Null.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 280	Posted - 2012.09.10 08:29:00 - [29] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: As far as Faction Warfare LP stores go, they are tailored toward PvE way too much, is it possible to remove the huge amount of Tags needed for faction items? Or make player wrecks drop approiate tags for there rank in the opposing militia? Wait and see how many tags are dumped into market when killing NPCs become mandatory rather than just something to do if bored. Just imagine if the tags from the plexes behind the millions (or is it billions ) VP/LP farmed the past year had been collected and put up for sale .. you'd be clamouring for the NPC buy orders on tags to be removed instead. In short: The tags are there and then some.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 317	Posted - 2012.10.10 07:52:00 - [30] - Quote "Time and resource consuming" my ass Double VP/LP gain from plexes in systems with enemy adjacent. Halve VP/LP gain from plexes in systems with no enemy adjacent. Triple LP-for-Kills in plexes in systems with enemy adjacent. How can adding static modifiers be a dev resource hog .. should even be relatively easy to determine adjacents as flips will still be completed during the DT database runs. @Deen: Is that a frontline and not merely a pipe/homesteads?. We have the same sort of thing going on Amarr/Shakorite front with Amamake-Auga-Kourmonen-Kamela/Huola .. basically just the chained systems connecting high-sec exits on the two sides.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 319	Posted - 2012.10.14 15:57:00 - [31] - Quote Soko99 wrote: Not sure if this has been suggested, but 25 pages is a lot to go through.... Not sure if making excuses for not reading before posting or posting in the wrong thread is worse .. hahahaha Bottom sticky, called "FW: NPC and you" or something like that, is the thread you are looking for. To save you some time however, let me just say Sleeper level AI and super-speedy NPC inties. The fact that the NPC thread has been gathering dust for months now can only mean that the majority of us are rather happy with CCP's chosen solution .. I know I am .. exceeded my expectations handedly (had/have low expectations though, because :CCP:, but still )
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 319	Posted - 2012.10.15 15:01:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey everyone. I've got a few updates to our plan to share.... If FW is to be used as a rough template for null sov, then 12.5% may not be enough (assuming numbers used will cross over), or does null space have significantly more temperate planets than low-sec? All that update did for me was make me look forward to the impending sov revamp even more .. especially the tears and rage that it will probably invoke as XXXX will no longer be able to use tactic YYYY. PS: If you think about it Fozzie, most of the aspects of FW are interconnected. It is the price of needing to feed both epeen and wallet with the same underlying system .. don't fight it, embrace it!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 319	Posted - 2012.10.15 17:34:00 - [33] - Quote Asthariye wrote: More than 24 hours notice would've been nice though for those of us who live in originally hostile systems with several temperate planets :( .... What does it matter .. isn't everything 9001% vulnerable at this point? Even if you happen to base out of a system that has miraculously evaded the gunless locust swarms, a 50% reduction in needed VP still leaves some 75 plexes that has to be lost .. This is Dust mechanics, will have close to zero influence on the state of things. 'Tis merely spice to give flavour, the composition and nutritional value of the meal lies elsewhere .. NPC, plex and upgrade changes is where its at (better not muck it up this time CCP!).
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 321	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:40:00 - [34] - Quote Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote: To be honest .... Never did get why people use that phrase, it implies that everything said sans phrase is not honest ... Reset won't happen as CCP would have to admit defeat (again). If it was to be then it should have been done when foreknowledge of impending changes was abused in the 2-3 week long Shakorite plexing frenzy up to Inferno when a single crew could flips as many systems in a day as they had manpower to burn bunkers. - Reset shouldn't happen as there is glory and honour in clawing ones way back from zero, provided we are given the tools/mechanics to make such a thing conceivable .. which leads to - Reset doesn't have to happen if CCP designs the system in such a way that being big and fat is detrimental to the general well-being of a militia (read: harsh as hell diminishing returns). Time will tell if that last one ever comes to pass, initial offering aimed at rewarding being bloated (defensive LP farms) with practically no hope of any sort of comeback for the downtrodden .. hoping that the prolonged silence on that front means that it is being contemplated in earnest, although chances are that it will be implemented "as is" with only minor tweaks .. but here is to hope
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 347	Posted - 2012.10.30 14:30:00 - [35] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: but what if they did? Indeed. Would be awesome if missions: - Were restricted in destination to hostile held space. - Applied some (or all) of their VP towards system occupancy. (Should be careful not to allow it becoming easy mode when taking systems from a downtrodden though) - Had poison pills to activate that wonderful ~~fight~~ profit or flight mechanism. But it is so far down the list of things that is unlikely to be realised that it is pointless to debate. Factions within CCP are loathe/reluctant/scared of "forcing" people into a specific play style (PvP) and would have people who join a militia at war to grow flowers be allowed to tend their flowerbeds without the need of ever taking up arms (can't make this **** up .. hahahaha). On a completely unrelated note: Just spent some time studying the Amarr/Shakorite militia interface and the map/setup is even more lopsided than I realised. Amarr are after the pre-patch flurry almost back to full system count, have upgraded most systems (not all fully) and are low tier2. Minmatar have slightly more than 'base', have no upgraded systems that I can see and are high tier 3. SORT THE DAMN MAP DISCREPANCY!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 381	Posted - 2012.11.16 15:13:00 - [36] - Quote Who could possibly have predicted that introducing defensive LP would make the warzone static .. must require several Ph.D's to ever come to that conclusion!!!!! PS: No I dont have a Ph.D. much less several, yet it was clear to me after a full minutes worth of thought .. either I am godly in the brain/analytical department or CCP+cronies are the proverbial doornails. PPS: To sort their fuckup, they are now contemplating adding off-race NPCs to defensive plexes to increase the risk .. rather than just axing (or reducing) D.LP again, go figure .. the level of folly can compete with the worst politicians bring to the table .. hahahahahahaha. My take: Holding a system should be its own reward (lots of possibilities, debated since forever), upgrades should be worth enough to want to defend them (lots of possibilities, debated since forever) or defensive plexing should be removed entirely by using aut-run timers (lots of possibilities, debated since forever).
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 384	Posted - 2012.11.17 17:39:00 - [37] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: I think you came pretty late to the discussion, but every post after they talked about the defensive bleed rate said it was too slow. Considering that I have been one of the most rabid and consistent posters of feedback on anything/everything FW related for more than four years, that is tantamount to an insult .. I ought to petition you for personal attacks!!! Rengerel en Distel wrote: I'd guess you haven't done a defensive plex either, but the payouts on systems you're actually trying to keep stable are pretty low. There are some systems it seems people are trying to keep in the "money" range, but for the most part, you're getting 100-600 lp doing a defensive plex. Doesn't matter if you get just one LP per plex, it is "free" in that it is given to the alts who were made unemployed by offensive plex changes (kill NPCs) .. the payout should be indirectly linked to defensive work as described in the post you quoted, anything else is silly. @Cearain: Primary defence should be pew based and CCP are reportedly working on the feedback system the two of us have been bickering about for years which will make roaming defence the new black. To augment it and sweeten the pot a bit when D.Plex LP is removed and auto-timers are implemented (hope springs eternal), LP-for-kills gained within a plex for the defending side should translate directly (or with modifier) towards the system pool .. that way you don't have to win the plex as in days of old as long as you try by throwing enough ships on the pyre to equal the VP the attacker gains for completing the plex. Remember that the defender is alone in being able to dock, since it won't change (given up on that) it is about time that monopoly had a purpose other than 'just because' .. give them a reason to use that reship ability!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 388	Posted - 2012.11.20 20:20:00 - [38] - Quote Or one could just K.I.S.S and add either an independent hunting tab to militia interface with below or add it as a mouse-hover popup in militia interface: - Hostile plexing Y/N ... defenders can reship in system so size data should not be needed .. don't want to pamper folks after all. - Plexes closed in the last 1 hr/ 6 hrs/ 12 hrs. That is all you need. If 1-6-12hr tallies are high'ish the system is being targeted and will yield a fight, if low'ish probably not defender has to keep ships around area he wants to help protect.

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